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the winds are changing.

wait, what? are you fucking kidding me.

wait, what? are you fucking kidding me.

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aliens
yes, I've heard. and, really, this is the only response:

  • Hey now.... I drive a PT Cruiser :)
  • holy crap.
  • (no subject) - atropis
    • agreed. :)

      I had to move my vacation for work stuff, but I'm still coming. I'll let you know as soon as I do.
  • I dunno - after knocking someone up, I think this is pretty small change.
    • good point.

      you gonna be in town this weekend? if not, I w as thinking I might come see you. The paper shop has been calling my name.
      • I was originally supposed to be, but now I don't know, because I'm pretty much gonna do the weekend wherever the heat gets fixed first...
  • Wow...this is quite a change from your last post in which you said:

    "You make him happier than I ever did, and I do want to see him happy. I see no good in being mad at you for it. I want to see us both happy."

    Do you really?

    That last post regarding the day of the divorce seemed rather high-minded about the whole business, as if you were ready to move forward with your life and wishing him well, but I'd call this a 180 degree turn into bitterness. The attitude you express in this post totally contradicts the idea that you want both of you to be happy. Is it that you are upset that he found happiness in the form of a relationship before you did? I know that it's tough to feel that way, but that's life, and it doesn't always feel fair.

    Having been twice-divorced, I can speak with some authority on the subject. You have a choice to make right now, and that is to keep on track with moving forward and living your life in the way you see fit and what makes you happy, in a totally separate manner from him . Or you can try to keep your life tied to his, even indirectly, by attacking him like you did here. Take it from me, all that is going to do is keep you tied to the past and make you miserable - and eventually force those of us who know you both to re-evaluate why exactly we want to continue to expose ourselves to that sort of acrimony.

    I do want to wish you well and it seemed to me that *maybe* you were moving on, having made the decision that being married didn't suit you and adjusting your life accordingly. I hope that you continue on that path and move forward with your life and let him move on peaceably with his.

    Be well,
    Trase
    • Wow, way to be jealous...

      I mean really, how do you get from wishing someone well to this? He's found happiness, and it wasn't with you. That happens in life. You wanted something different than he did, so it was best that you parted ways.

      I'm in shock just reading this. I can't tell you to be well, it's just best that I say nothing at all.
      • Wishing him well doesn't mean I can't make fun of him when I think he's making a mistake. :)
      • Again with the people who barely know benny talking shit! you have a nice day too! Bet you're perfect. You enjoy your perfection! And your unasked for advice. Know what's funny? No one cares, your opinion doesn't matter and that is the best part. kthxbai.
      • You

        (Anonymous)
        Sound like a faggot.
    • Trase, dear. I realize you don't mean well, because if you did you'd not be starting livejournal drama. Please don't expect that you can, even remotely, determine how I'm feeling, or how I'm doing based on random lj entries that are weeks or months apart.

      I am not bitter that he "found happiness in the form of a relationship before you did".
      I do wish him to be happy. One of the numerous reasons we were never able to see eye to eye was our mutually exclusive life goals. He wants a family and a house and a picket fence, which are all things I am not interested in. I do get a certain, shadenfroidic, glee that he's making bad decisions. It's the same glee I get from watching anyone make bad decisions, when they should know better. I think it the second least mature thing he has done, post break-up, to get pregnant. The least mature? Deciding to get married, after less than a year of dating (I'm sure they've been talking about this for a while). He's made that mistake before.

      While I can't say, 100%, that the decision is a bad one, I can't think of anything that would make it a good one, and I know a pattern when I see one. I believe, whole heartedly, that he's fallen back into the pattern of behavior that lead to us getting married for not good reasons.

      I have no way of knowing how well you know Dave. I know you weren't something I would consider close while Dave and I were married, so you only have what we've said publicly about our relationship. Dave has taken it upon himself to open up his heart, and his head, for the entire world to see. That means that anyone who's read it has complete access to his point of view, and his logics. You've been privy to those, and that's fine. You're allowed your point of view too. He's must have given you a reason and a right to expound on how your relationships and divorces are similar to ours.

      I have not.

      From the discussions I've had with Dave, and the people around him that he has trusted to talk to about his relationship with Nikki (my mother for one), I think it is possibly the strongest, and most healthy relationship he's ever been in. It's certainly stronger and healthier than ours was, for which I commend him. I'm not disputing that. I'm, quite simply, making fun of him. Just like I would any of my friends, or Palin, or Clinton, or John Denver, or the cookie monster, or anyone else I want to.

      Just so we're clear: the things I have posted on livejournal cannot, even remotely, begin to encompass the oceans of feelings I have about our separation. I have posted some of the things I thought might be solid enough for Until I feel like a person, whole and stable, I will continue to avoid relationships, to avoid repeating my mistakes.

      This post is me commenting on him repeating the cycle, instead of breaking free from it. Since this is my journal, which he no longer reads (although with the level of unnecessary drama this has reached, I'd be willing to bet he's heard about it), and this is a free country, I exercise my right to post freely.

      I do wish him well. That doesn't mean, nor has it ever, that I have to silently stand by when I think he's making a mistake. I can make comments about him and his decisions whenever, and wherever I'd like. In whatever format. They don't mean that I'm a bitter old maid, or that I wish him ill. Promise.
      • You know, Benny, my effort here was never to start LJ Drama. That started with your post, not my response.

        You put something inflammatory out there and didn't want anyone to respond unfavorably to it, and I did. And honestly, my response is because I see similarities with what I went through. Is this me trying to make it into my story, as I was accused by someone else? Absolutely not, and that is why I made limited reference to my own experience in my initial response. However, I was accused of not understanding the situation, and while we have not undergone the same set of circumstances - in fact, you and I basically have reverse roles in some ways, because I wanted the family and house and my ex wanted the polyamourous relationship, etc., I think that many of the post-divorce feelings, *particularly* about the other person moving on without you, are something you and I have shared.

        If you wanted to limit the sort of feedback you received on this post, perhaps removing the comment feature would have been the direction to go. But as you did not, I commented, and it was not to your liking. Perhaps you didn't expect anyone to dissent. But I have done so and it is because I recognize the potential path you can proceed down with this kind of thought pattern. It's certainly your right to have the same bad experiences that I did, but just as you say:

        "That doesn't mean, nor has it ever, that I have to silently stand by when I think he's making a mistake. I can make comments about him and his decisions whenever, and wherever I'd like. In whatever format."

        I also do not have to silently stand by when I think *you* are making a mistake, and when you put something like this up for public consumption, with the ability to respond publicly, understand that doesn't mean you are only going to hear cheers from your audience.

        Believe me, I have sailed similar waters as yours - I avoided relationships and even sex for almost a year after my divorce so that I felt like I was ready to try again. But that didn't give me the right to criticize my ex for his choice to move forward with relationships immediately. Was that a mistake on his part? Probably - but it was his mistake to make, and I had my own decisions about my own life and how I wanted to live it - that's all I got. Divorce means you don't get to hold any influence on your former partner's life decisions, even if you believe with all your being that they are headed down the path of doom. And the only thing you accomplish by proclaiming that to all who will hear is stunting your own growth.

        You mention feeling schadenfreude toward him and how he's proceeding with his life, and yet you also make it very clear that is not the life you wanted. Why hold animosity toward him for that? Why not focus on your own life?

        My thoughts on this may very well be completely without value to you because I'm not kowtowing - so take it for what it's worth. But I know that ultimately some of the best advice I received was criticism from friends who cared enough to tell me when I was wrong.

        YMMV.


        • You like drama, sweet. You kinda live on it. It's cool, though. To each their own. It's something you learned from your parents, just like I did. I just overcame it. With work, and effort, you can too.

          I see humor, and take a very small amount of pleasure, in him making decisions that I think are mistakes for him. That's pretty much the definition of schadenfreude. That's all this post boils down to. It's the exact same for me, as my reaction to this

          Your thoughts aren't without value because you're not kowtowing, they're without value because you've never taken the time to actually talk to me about it. You have dave's perspective and are his friend. That's all that matters. I do not consider you a friend, and therefore you have little insight into my head. It makes sense that you have less insight if, as you present, I am in the position of your ex.

          I believe you when you say you've sailed similar waters, but I can guarantee that we view those waters differently, and that we have differing opinions about the waters.

          I don't feel the need to censor you, or anyone else, who would like to respond to this post. That's why I didn't remove comments, or screen them.

          and I got stuff to do. sooooooo, I'm done with the pointless lj flame war.

          Thanks for the fun, though. And have a very nice day.
          • You like drama, sweet. You kinda live on it. It's cool, though. To each their own. It's something you learned from your parents, just like I did. I just overcame it. With work, and effort, you can too.

            It's for words like these to the dumbasses of the world that I love you to my core, darling Benny.
    • *sigh*

      I really only have one thing to say about this, especially since anipaschke has already done a good job of jumping to Benny's defense, and since Benny has weighed in on this issue.

      The only thing I want to add is this: people feel different ways at different times, and often feel conflicting emotions at the same time. We're complicated. We can't help it, must be a design flaw. From my own experience, for the most part I'm good with my exes. I'm happy that they're in a good place, and I can see that it's good that we ended our relationships when we did. On bad days, I still feel hurt and betrayed, and have mad moments of glee when I hear of some new complication in their lives. On worse days, I miss them and wish I could fix the things that broke our relationships. Sometimes I even manage to experience all three at once, which is terribly awkward.

      The thing is, those moments aren't a setback or a regression or a 180 or whatever. Not for me. They're part of how I'm dealing with the experience of being badly dumped. They're part of a normal (for me) range of emotions that come after an intense breakup. I'm not saying that this is exactly what Benny's going through; neither of us tend to write much about the extremes of our emotional swings, particularly not after our respective relationship meltdowns. I am saying that it's very possible for someone to be moving on and happy where they are, to make a post like this one, and have it not be a contradiction.

      Based on your comments, I'm glad for you that your method of dealing with the emotional fallout from your divorces worked, and that you're happy and healthy, even though I don't think I've ever met you. However, I know that for me, that simple decision would not be as effective. Personally, I feel that when it comes to emotional responses to trauma - and divorce certainly counts - there are no black and white answers for dealing, and one person's method of success would be another's failure. I do think that this is part of Benny's method, and I don't think she needs to be reprimanded for not moving on because she has.

      Of course, I'm not omniscient, so I could be talking out of my ass right here.

      *Edit to fix bad user tag

      Edited at 2008-10-02 09:16 pm (UTC)
  • It's funny how everyone assumes the higher ground when someone else is in a situation they are not. If you're not close enough to someone to call them when they are clearly having an issue feel free to not say anything. Cause do you really think she doesn't know what she posted and what it looks like? God I am so sick of everyone being all self-righteous even when their own lives are a mess. So I'm going to rant about it here.

    I'm happy for Dave. These are things he always wanted and I wish him the best. I think he'll be a good dad. I think that he and Nikki make their own grownup decisions and that's a good thing. I think it's absolutely foolish to assume Benny would not have an emotional reaction to hearing that Dave's fulfilling his dreams with someone else. And you can want someone to be happy with someone else, but still be hurt and still lash out. Which happens with people who are happily married.

    So, )she said childishly) fuck your moral high ground.

    Sorry Benny. It's just that I think people are fucking awful these days. Also I can't take my ire out on the one person I want to. So... my apologies. Delete if you wish=) You know what I'm like.
    • I'm sorry, do I know you?
      • do you know benny? Is it from the same kind of cutesy stories that I know you from? Cause I have to assume if you guys were best buds I would have heard about it.

        • Actually, I do. And I'm not sure what "cutesy stories" you refer to, but clearly you do not have a favorable opinion of me even though we've never met (to my knowledge, anyway.) If there is some issue you have with me personally aside from this interaction here, please contact me directly via email to discuss it - my username on gmail. Thank you.

          My point in commenting here is that I have been down the road she's starting to travel and it's not a good direction in which to find oneself. As mentioned, I have gone through two divorces and the second one in particular was *UGLY*. Unfortunately for a period of time I chose to dwell on what my ex had done to me and grow increasingly bitter toward him and the way he had simply started his life over without me, and some would even argue that I had that right based on his very selfish and cruel actions. But regardless of that, it did me *no good whatsoever* to stagnate in that place, even if my outrage was justified. And I'm not saying hers is or isn't - her feelings are her own and are real to her and other opinions don't matter. But the bottom line is, when going through this, a choice must be made to spit out the poison we create in ourselves with these feelings and move on to a better place, or sit there trying to make a case for why the other person is so much in the wrong for their actions. I did the latter in my divorce in 2005 and all it did was stunt my ability to move on and find my happy. Thankfully, I finally reached that point, and have been moving forward joyfully in my life. But I could never have done that if I hung on to those feelings of bitterness and resentment toward my ex. I don't want to see Benny get stuck in the same place I was. One of the elements that really made a difference for me was to have friends willing to stand up to me and tell me when I was wrong or when I was frankly, sounding like a broken record about how hurt by and angry toward my ex I found myself.

          Now I'm not saying that a person can't have those feelings - but is a post like this really the best way to work through them? I can say from experience, no, it's not. It's better to talk directly with individuals about it all and not make it into a public debacle. That just turns it into a monster that is difficult to tame. Keeping better care of how I handled my processing of all those hurt feelings certainly would have been the better course for me to choose, and so I'm willing to admit my own mistake and warn against following it in order to try and help someone else avoid it.



          • I think you're making this a show. Which is selfish. You've clearly chosen to pursue the high ground, which is really easy to do. You might have your personal experiences, but that means you should recognize how irritating it is have someone else's advice thrown at you. I sincerely doubt you're thinking about Benny. You're thinking about how valuable your advice is, how good it sounds, not how you, from your own words, did not go the same route at all. You, imperfect like everyone else, chose a forum to state something that pleased you to read. The look and syntax of your own words. Bet you were a little pleased at how reasonable you look. Because we're all like this. But none us of expect someone to be bothered by it. It sucks that you had horrible experiences. But you made your reaction to Benny about you. And now I'm taking my frustrations with your response and with someone else out on you. Pretty unfair isn't it, to have to read my little rant when you were just trying to be "helpful". Have a nice day!
            • You know, you're right. Clearly, I should not have offered my advice, because it is without value. Trying to help someone with a issue I myself have had is a worthless pursuit.
              • LOL- need the last word that badly?
                • (Anonymous)
                  umm ditto. At least the other person had something to say in their last one. This was just pathetic.
  • (no subject) - yevgeniy80
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